ONLINE JOURNALISM
INTERVIEWS
Ted Koppel
By J.D. Lasica
Gov. George Deukmejian, who is looked upon as a source of pride in the nation's
Armenian community, has made public discussion of the Ottoman Empire massacres
a recurring theme of his administration. The governor's parents emigrated
to this country from Armenia in 1907 and 1909, before the massacres of 1915-18.
Following are excerpts from an hour-long interview conducted by J.D. Lasica:
Let's start off with your early years. Were there
some Armenian traditions that thrived in the Deukmejian household?
Where was your home?
Did you ever experience any kind of discrimination?
Let's turn to the genocide. You've stated that
you lost an aunt.
That was before you were born. Did your family
ever learn what became of her?
It's sometimes called the forgotten genocide. Why
do you suppose so few people know about it today?
What kinds of lessons can the world draw from the
genocide? Why is it important to remember?
The Turkish government has acknowledged that hundreds
of thousands of innocent lives were lost during the deportation processes,
but they say the killings were a consequence of the civil war within a world
war and there was no government policy to wipe out the Armenians. How do
you respond to that?
If the Turkish government issued a formal apology
tomorrow, would that be the end of it? What is it that needs to be done?
Short of an apology from Turkey, what would it
take to heal the wounds?
You signed into law a genocide studies bill that
becomes part of the public school curriculum this fall. What do you hope
schoolchildren will take away from this?
I assume you've been reading in the paper the news
accounts of the demonstrations in Soviet Armenia. The Soviets have agreed
to increase Armenian emigration to about 5,000 a month. Do you suppose many
of them will be coming to California?
Are you concerned that your strong criticisms of
the Turkish government might antagonize Turkish-Americans?
You've publicly criticized the Reagan administration
and State Department for putting the wishes of a NATO ally, Turkey, ahead
of the moral weight of the genocide. In foreign policy matters like this,
would you put a higher premium on morality than on realpolitik?
A few Armenian-Americans I've talked to expressed
support for the goals of the radical terrorist groups that are seeking to
liberate their Armenian homeland. Do you find yourself sympathizing with
their cause?
So you can't separate the goals from the means
...
You're held in very high esteem by Armenians across
the nation and it's said that you're probably the best-known Armenian-American
in the world. Do you see yourself as a sort of symbol, as carrying a banner
for the cause, perhaps?
Obviously there are a number of issues that are
important to you, but the genocide seems to be in a class by itself. Why
does it touch you so deeply?
PHOTO BY J.D. LASICA
Gov. George Deukmejian
on the Armenian genocide
California Gov. George Deukmejian reflects on the Armenian
genocide — and how it still affects his people's spirit
This Q&A with the sitting governor of California appeared in The Sacramento
Bee on April 24, 1988 and was reprinted in the magazine Ararat. It was one
of the few one-on-one interviews Deukmejian granted during his governorship.
Oh,
absolutely. My parents were very much involved in Armenian community activities.
My father used to participate in some of the Armenian fraternal organizations.
... My mother was actively involved with what they called the Armenian Relief
Society, which is like the Armenian Red Cross. My mother used to sing at
a lot of different Armenian events and functions, and my sister was a very
accomplished pianist and so she had to play the piano while my mother sang.
And obviously little Corky, as I was called in those days, used to have
to go along to all these events.
It's in a village called Menands, New York. It's like a suburb
of Albany.
Well, not knowingly. I think there maybe were things that might
have been done that I wasn't aware of, but I've never had any ugly types
of incidents.
My father was the oldest son in the family; he had two brothers
and three sisters. He made his way to the United States and eventually brought
his brothers and one sister over here. Another sister lived most of her
adult life in Beirut, Lebanon. The other sister was lost in the massacres
that took place.
I never knew what happened to her. But it just happened to so
many other people at the same time that it was just one more tragic example
of what was happening.
Well, when it occurred there was such a dispersal of people who
had been living in that part of Turkey. They all had to flee in so many
different directions that small Armenian communities (sprang up) throughout
the whole world. You can go almost anywhere and you'll find some small Armenian
community.
And as a result of that, and as a result of there not being any strong leadership,
the people were without any money, without any resources, they were spread
all over the world, they were just trying to make ends meet and live day
to day and get a foothold and try to raise a family and so on.
There wasn't any core group that had resources to keep the issue before
the world. Another thing is that at the time we did not have the same kind
of multimedia communications that you have today.
Now, as Armenians have become more established in their communities, now
that they have been able to succeed in their businesses and professions
and they've been able to educate their children and so on, now they're able
to have a little more influence and they're able now to focus the world's
attention on what happened at that time. But there was nobody in the intervening
years to do that.
Well, perhaps if the world had not forgotten about it, maybe
they would've been a little more attentive and might have taken steps earlier — been more united in opposition to what happened in Nazi Germany — and perhaps 6 million Jewish people and non-Jewish people might not
have suffered as a result of that.
It's important to keep in the minds of the people today what did happen
in Nazi Germany because a lot of people would like to rewrite history, a
lot of people would like to forget and they'd like to say, "Well, that's
a long time ago, let's not dwell on it, you know, let's try to go on and
look at more positive things.''
Unfortunately, human beings being what they are, this kind of thing can
repeat itself. We see it repeat itself in Cambodia and perhaps not in the
same numbers but in some other countries as well.
Well, that's contrary to actual fact. Literally volumes have been written
on this by people who were there at the time, people who are non-Armenian.
Historians have recorded what have gone on, newspapers in the United States
carried all kinds of articles and stories about what went on, the United
States ambassador at the time also was reporting to the American government
what was going on. So, unfortunately, the version of history that the present-day
Turkish government is expressing is contrary to actual fact.
I certainly think that that would be very satisfactory to an overwhelming
majority of people of Armenian ancestry. Obviously there are still some
people within the Armenian community who would like to some day have an
independent nation, Armenian nation, just as there was such a nation for
a brief period of time after World War I. And, you know, no group of people
like to be without a country of their own. ...
But I think what would be the next important step would be to have some
kind of an actual dialogue begin with representatives of the Armenian community
and Turkish government and (Soviet Armenia).
I don't see that there is anything short of that. ... I mean,
they're doing just the opposite. They're just trying to rewrite history.
They're spending literally millions of dollars in opposition to any effort
by the Armenians to try to get recognition. They are now financing large
numbers of professors in different educational institutions around the country
and giving them certain grants and so on in an effort to try to rewrite
history. So they're doing just the opposite of trying to be conciliatory.
They're just trying to make the division even wider.
We hope that they'll be more aware of the potential for that
type of ugly activity that some rulers of countries can carry out, which
costs the lives of millions of people and affects many millions of others,
and to be aware that ... it could always happen in the future, if they as
future leaders don't try to do everything they can to prevent it.
Yes. There already have been a rather significant number that
have come over the years and every indication is that anytime you do have
a mass immigration like that from a region, they tend to go to where maybe
their relatives already are or where they have contacts and friends. Inasmuch
as there already are a rather large number of Armenians, especially those
from the Soviet Union, who are here in California, we do expect that there
will be a large number of those coming to California, but they will perhaps
go to other areas too.
I would hope that Turkish-Americans would be willing to accept history as
it occurred and not try to rewrite it, as, unfortunately, the current government
is trying to do.
Well, absolutely. I think that it is in our own country's best
interest to adopt and carry out policies that are in accord with our own
strong principles with respect to freedom and respect to human rights, civil
rights.
Any time that a country begins to adopt policies for geopolitical reasons
rather than based upon our own fundamental, strong principles of allowing
for freedom and allowing for democracy and representative government, and
so on, then I think that we lose a lot of our own credibility and I think
that it begins to chip away at some of strengths that we have throughout
the world.
If we can have allies like, let's say, West Germany and Japan, which acknowledged
the wrongdoing done by former governments, I fail to see why we can't still
have Turkey as a NATO ally.
But at the same time we cannot allow them to get away with trying to rewrite
history and see our State Department, or our administration, knuckle under
to a position taken by an ally that is totally contrary to what happened.
To me that is very regrettable and I am not very proud of that stand.
No, and to my knowledge, I don't know of any Armenians who support any kind
of terrorist activities.
You can't, when you talk about it in that context, you can't
separate it out. There's nobody I know and I can tell you that all of the
responsible people in the Armenian community are very, very much opposed
to any kind of activity of that nature.
Well, that's not something that you — what's the right
way for me to say it? (He laughs.) I recognize the fact that since I happen
to be, you know, probably holding the highest elected office (of any person
of Armenian ancestry) in the United States. ...
I recognize that there are certain responsibilities that go along with that.
It's not a position that I sought, but I do recognize that there is a certain
amount of responsibility that goes along with my position.
Well, you know, unlike so many other American families that have not had
that kind of experience, I think those of us whose families have been touched
by it, where it's been involved in our history, we're naturally more aware.
I think the same is true of, let's say, some of the residents of California
who are of Jewish ancestry whose families were touched by it.
And so, to try to use that experience to the best advantage, we can perhaps
help mankind to prevent further atrocities in the years ahead by reminding
our fellow Americans and fellow human beings throughout the world that these
types of genocide policies and activities can happen again.
The forgotten ones: The boy who was sold for a silver coin and other Armenian stories of survival
A backgrounder: Witnesses to genocide
Interviews
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